you
and morty baby
welcome to this edition of the
astronauts i'm lynn Bondurant during the
next half hour we talk with former
astronaut Michael Collins who was on the
first manned mission to land on the moon
that mission is called Apollo 11 and it
culminated in one of the most
significant events in known history his
two companions astronauts Neil a
Armstrong and Edwin Buzz Aldrin were the
first two human beings to walk on the
moon surface the mission took place from
July 16 to 24 1969 it lasted 195 hours
18 minutes and 35 seconds as call for by
the Mission Plan Collins did not descend
to the moon surface but remained in
lunar orbit with a command module before
we go to our interview with Michael
Collins let's see part of a 1969 film
documenting that historic flight the
film is called eagle has landed
the flight of Apollo 11
other astronauts had made this journey
to the launch pad but never with such
anticipation
9:32 a.m. July 16
three hours later the Apollo command
module moves forward to extract the
lunar module from the third stage of the
launch vehicle both are moving at more
than 17,000 miles an hour docked
together they will sail a quarter
million miles across the sea of space
and into orbit around the Earth's
nearest neighbour during the three-day
journey to the moon the astronauts kept
busy checklists navigation and
observation
housekeeping
they must work in a weightless
environment keeping their spacecraft and
themselves in good condition data must
be collected and reported experiments
must be performed including photography
both inside and outside the spacecraft
because of the film speed these actions
appear faster than they actually were
July 19 Apollo 11 slows down and goes
into orbit around the moon the bright
blue planet of Earth now lies 238,000
miles beyond the lunar horizon
astronauts Armstrong and Aldrin now in
the lunar module separate from the
command module
astronaut Collins remains behind
preparation for the lunar module descent
to the moon now begins
you
the command module assumes the new name
Columbia
the lunar module will be called the
eagle
from Colombia Michael Collins camera
sees bright rays of the Sun reflecting
patterns of color from the surface of
the Eagle in this strange metallic bird
rides the ancient and endless dream of
all mankind the command pilot can see
detail which his camera cannot record
the four landing pads of the lunar
module are fully extended and locked in
place the Eagle is poised and prepared
for its descent to the lunar surface
you
the moon landing craft rocket engine
fires to slow it down and to place it on
the pathway to the landing site in the
Sea of Tranquility there is tension than
caution as the eagle flies lower warning
lights blink on as the computer tries to
keep up with a demand for control data
but the status remains go eagle we got
you down looking good over Houston after
you're around angle s van pitch - I know
y'all +18 rocket you're ago - can you go
to continue park you're a go to continue
quality altitude now 21,000 feet still
looking very good velocity down out of
1,200 feet per second looking great that
vehicle with the reading on the 1202
program for life rocket we got you we're
going at alarm good radar data we're now
in the approach phase everything looking
good
altitude 4200 thing you're go for
landing over
I'd read it then go for landing 3,000
feet dive alarm altitude 1,600 1,400
feet still looking very good
100 feet 21 down 33 degrees 100 feet
down at 1900 1 1201 rocket 1201 alarm
we're go think I will go altitude
velocity light it is down to 20 feet 15
forward forward go down I plate 200 feet
point a nap down five and a half
60-second fights on
down two and a half
alright alright
but
20 feet down to a nap picking up some
dust
fall forward forward ripped into the
right little butt
I'm back right okay engine stop we copy
it down eagle
Bangor eBay PayPal I've landed
through the window of the eagle
armstrong and aldrin see what no human
eyes have ever seen before their
spacecraft casts a long shadow across
the undisturbed dust of centuries
seven hours after landing after careful
preparations for later air scent were
completed Armstrong opens the Eagle
hatch and begins his climb down to the
surface
the first footsteps on this strange new
world must be taken cautiously the moon
has only 1/6 the gravity of Earth the
nature of its surface was still unknown
I'm now step off the LEM now
upon all fifth man one giant leaf now
that we've seen some of the historic
film of the Apollo 11 mission we're
almost ready to go to the interview I
had with Michael Collins following the
publication of his second book liftoff
but first here's a little background on
Collins Michael Collins is a retired
Major General in the US Air Force
Reserve he was born October 31 1930 and
Rome Italy here in a Bachelor of Science
from US Military Academy
besides Apollo 11
he flew in the Gemini 10 earth orbital
mission which was preparatory for Apollo
missions Collins walked in space during
the Gemini 10 mission for one hour and
30 minutes astronaut John Young flew
with him on that mission which lasted
from July 18th to July 21st 1966 now
let's go to my interview with Collins
when I asked him what he was trying to
accomplish with his latest book liftoff
well I think people have very short
memories and I thought it might be
interesting to go back 20 years or so 19
years it's been already since the first
lunar landing but to go back to the time
of John F Kennedy when he first started
project column by by saying he wanted to
send a man to the moon and returning him
safely to earth by the end of the decade
the decade being the 1960s and I thought
you kind of nice to put down in
sequential order some of the preparatory
steps Project Mercury project Gemini
project Apollo and to talk a little bit
about those machines and how they worked
but also to talk about the people who
put them together the people who flew
them and then just to keep that going
right on up through Skylab the shuttle
an examination of where NASA is today
and then some possibilities for the
future so that's fundamentally what the
books about
Mike looking back to the
days of the Gemini in the Apollo
programs to today's flight of the
shuttle what do you see as some
differences as related to astronaut
training I think the the shuttle is more
complicated by far than the early
machines were the Apollo command module
I thought was a was a real handful it
was to me it was sort of like painting
the Brooklyn Bridge by the time I got to
the end of it there was something I'd
forgotten at the beginning and for me it
was a constant process of Education of
learning and yet they tell me the
shuttle is probably the equivalent of
for command modules in complexity so
that's the main difference what about
you know public support comparing it you
know in the past during Gemini Apollo
and today it seems as though in the past
there was a lot more public support for
going to the moon then even there is
today for say putting a space station in
orbit well I think there are some
fundamental differences one is that the
President Kennedy got very personally
involved Capitol Hill in those days was
more apt to go along with White House
programs than they are today so it got
the enthusiastic support of the Congress
and I and I think the people the
difficulty with the space station I
believe is that it's to be a research
facility it's to find out answers to
difficult questions and yet a lot of the
politicians and budget tears and
bureaucrats want NASA to list exactly
what the answers to those questions are
before they fly this research laboratory
well that's simply not possible you
can't that's the whole point in going is
to is to have a research facility and
and to learn as much as we possibly can
I mean we never would have had the
invention of penicillin for example if
if the people doing the work had had to
take that NASA like approach and say in
20 pages why they were studying this
particular mold or fungus and and what
the spin-offs of it might possibly be so
as a nation and we're really struggling
to I get you
and identify a space policy you know you
look at the shuttle space policy and
it's many people considered a real
disaster what do you think we have to do
to turn things around there is a fairly
recent space policy issued by the Reagan
White House which makes a good deal of
sense and it includes sending people out
into the universe but that policy has to
be backed up with a high priority by the
President himself by his staff by the
leaders in Congress and I don't think
that's happened because NASA is still
appropriated less than 1% of the federal
budget and and I think they need a
little bit more to get an aggressive
good long-range program going Mike
thinking back over the past 30 years
that nASA has been around what do you
think have been NASA's five greatest
accomplishments or achievements I've
always thought that the first lunar
landing by the end of the decade was
probably what NASA did best I think in a
way though I think Apollo 8 was a more
fundamentally important for flight than
Apollo 11 Apollo 8 you recall was the
one that first saw men breaking away
breaking bonds of gravity and reaching
escape velocity another achievement that
people forget but is a little thing
called pioneer 10 pioneer 10 is the
first manufactured first object made by
humans to leave our solar system it's
gone out past the orbit of Pluto has
headed out for all times for infinity
out into the universe
I think the unmanned landing on Mars by
the two Viking landers where
I think that was a very important
achievement so I guess I might say this
is a short and quick list but Apollo is
8 and 11 pioneer 10 and Viking and then
the fifth one I'm going to put in the
future and I'm going to say that's the
Hubble Space Telescope Mike now that
you've thought about NASA's 5 major
accomplishments do you think that Mars
should be NASA's next major initiative
or endeavor yes I really do I think I
think Mars would be so important and so
long range of goal that it would pull in
its wake a lot of things that NASA is
trying to do today but not having much
success with for example if you want to
return to the moon I think probably a
better justification for it is that it
be a way station on the way to Mars I'm
not saying that you have to have a
colony on the moon or that you must
return to the moon in order to reach
Mars you don't but if Mars were your
goal you might very well discover that
the most practical way to get there
would be to build a lunar colony first
clearly if Mars were your goal you need
a space station and the purposes to
which that space station would be put
would be much more clearly defined and I
think NASA would have an easier time
justifying and obtaining the funds for a
space station as a precursor to Mars
especially from the human factors
physiological point of view I think a
lot of things would pull in in the wake
of a Mars initiative you know Mike do
you think that the enthusiasm and the
incitement on planet Earth will be as
great for a mission to Mars as it was
for the Apollo missions to the moon I
think so I think Mars is a lot more
interesting place than the moon although
it is certainly true that the Viking
results were disappointing in that they
didn't find any life on Mars and
little green men but the possibility
exists that there used to be life on
Mars and I think it would be fascinating
to go digging the surface looking for
fossils and studying the planet from the
surface to try to determine why you have
these two almost twin planets Earth and
Mars and why they turned out so
differently why the water there one time
dug deep channels in the surface of Mars
why did that dry up and blow away why
did the Martian atmosphere become so
thin how did it dissipate what can we
learn about our own planet from studying
this one that's had such a different
history do you think that the mission to
Mars should be international in scope
that would certainly be nice complicates
an already complicated task but I think
it's worth a try and I think we ought to
ought to try to put together not just a
u.s. Soviet joint venture but rather one
that includes a lot of other countries
as well the Japanese the Europeans let
anyone who can contribute technology and
money throw it into the pot and do it do
it in terms of humankind leaving this
planet and establishing a settlement on
Mars rather than any one nation doing it
you know thinking back at the time of
the Apollo missions there were very few
nations involved in space exploration
and currently they're over a hundred
what would be the differences or the
implications or influences versus many
more people on a global scale involved
in space exploration you know versus
just a couple well of course so the more
countries that are involved I suppose
the more popular greater support section
on our voyage would enjoy it does the
negative side of it is it makes it makes
it very difficult it's difficult enough
I remember from project Apollo to get
two or three American companies all
working together harmoniously never mind
people
who are divided by an ocean and
different languages different mores and
cultures even a different system for
weights and measures one of my favorite
quotes in your book is these are not
ejection seats but Thrones facing out on
the universe and we are wealthier than
kings by going into orbit boards say a
Gemini spacecraft or around the moon or
to the moon in the Apollo spacecraft
does it really change one's perspective
of themselves and of the planet Earth
I think certainly to go as far away as
the moon and look back on the earth
certainly does affect your perspective
the Apollo command module had had five
windows in it and when your quarter of a
million miles away from Earth and you
look out the window to find it very
common to be no earth in any one of the
five the earth is down under you over
your shoulder somewhere else so that's a
strange sensation to have to maneuver
around even to find your your home and
then when you see it tiny is your
thumbnail held out in front of you at
arm's length that sort of gets your
attention a beautiful sight tiny
pristine blue and white very fragile
looking object shining like a beautiful
little headlight out there in the black
velvet of space it does change your
perspective it makes you think that we
have to take better care of this little
fragile entity because it is fragile and
it also leads one in the direction of
thinking about problems globally
thinking back on your own career as a
Gemini and Apollo astronaut I think you
had a chance to take a couple of EB A's
when base walks yes all right could you
describe that and was it perhaps in
terms the air sighs one of the scariest
things that they have to do it wasn't it
wasn't one of the most fun things that
an astronaut gets to do it wasn't really
wasn't really scary but it was
it's like being cooped up inside a
bathhouse let's say and then suddenly
being freed and allowed to go up and do
a double back somersault off the high
board it was sort of that that feeling
of release of freedom of getting out of
a confined space of having the whole
whole world at your feet to being able
to see in all directions without
confining spacecraft windows it was a
wonderful sense of liberation of freedom
of floating of being one with the whole
universe and today using the MMU versus
an umbilical cord I know it gives much
more freedom it takes a different kind
of training does it not yes the
astronaut maneuvering unit is a
miniature spacecraft in itself and it's
a wonderful gadget it's flown like a
spacecraft you have each hand with its
assigned tasks to either turn you this
way or that way up or down or to move
you backwards and forwards and so the
people who have I've never never flown
with it but the people who have clearly
really are enjoying themselves and have
a lot more control over where they go
and what they do you do dangling out of
the end of an umbilical cord one last
question if you had to give some words
of wisdom to young people about the
future and their partner Space
Exploration what might you encourage
them or how well I think whatever their
field whether it be space or some other
field I think to try to be the best in
that field to really strive for
excellence to I think that gives people
of a feeling of confidence and a feeling
of well-being to know that they've put
their everything into something and
they're the best they can be at it
certainly was true I think as a space
program man and I think space program
will always be an area right on the edge
of of our knowledge on the edge of our
technology
frontier of physically and mentally of
the things we do and to me it would be a
fascinating area for young people to
become involved with certainly is we get
into the 21st century we're going to see
some remarkable advances in our space
technology and would be a good career to
be part of that the interview you just
saw with former astronaut Michael
Collins was recorded earlier when he was
in Cleveland in future programs we will
see and visit with other astronauts
until then this is Lynn Bondurant saying
goodbye from the NASA Lewis Research
Center in Cleveland Ohio
you
ah